We've sent a verification link by email
Didn't receive the email? Check your Spam folder, it may have been caught by a filter. If you still don't see it, you can resend the verification email.
Started December 11th, 2006 · 14 replies · Latest reply by thanos 17 years, 4 months ago
I came across this article by usability expert Jakob Nielsen, and thought some of you might find it interesting:
http://www.useit.com/alertbox/participation_inequality.html
Jakob Nielsen
In most online communities, 90% of users are lurkers who never contribute, 9% of users contribute a little, and 1% of users account for almost all the action.
Not everything is applicable to Freesound, but I found it to be a thought-provoking read.
Comments?
Interesting read for sure. I think Freesound is a little different, as we're all really hear* for the sound, and the main currency of contribution is Audio Files rather than communication (in my eyes at least, and thats not to say I dont enjoy the discorse )
Maybe the way this relates to us most is feedback (or lack thereof). Surely it is only 1% or less that actually upload all the sounds, and to me feedback in the form of comments is important. To me the above article relates more to another forum I'm on, where signal to noise has gone worse and worse.
*pardon the pun
Halleck
I came across this article by usability expert Jakob Nielsen, and thought some of you might find it interesting:
http://www.useit.com/alertbox/participation_inequality.htmlJakob Nielsen
In most online communities, 90% of users are lurkers who never contribute, 9% of users contribute a little, and 1% of users account for almost all the action.Not everything is applicable to Freesound, but I found it to be a thought-provoking read.
Comments?
Quite provoking indeed, even on an analog modem I couldn't resist writing on this.
The issue is interesting, but hardly surprising from a biological standpoint. I mean, look at any forest /grassland or whatever biological 'community': most 'contributions' (individuals) belong to a few species also.
You may easily find examples of unequality (maybe uneveness would be the right word, Mike?) both in the natural world, in the physics, chemistry... It's like a thermodynamics law or something: few do most
BUT WE NEED YOU ALL, PLEASE UPLOAD SOUND!
An interesting read, and I think these mechanisms resonate everywhere: on the net, in real life...
Dobroide: I really like the reference to thermodynamics! I agree with you that it works like this - even more: unequality or heterogenety drives change. However, this should not encourage lurkers to keep on lurking... :wink:
Hello everyone,
It's an interesting read Halleck, and yes, quite provoking !
We also see that Bram used the participation equalization tricks since the birth of freesound (and before the Jakob Nieilsen's paper)
Make it easier to contribute.
Make participation a side effect.
Edit, don't create.
Reward -- but don't over-reward -- participants.
Promote quality contributors.
I really agree with Walter_Odington on the importance of feedback in the form of comments.
It's really tiring and discouraging when you see a sample you've made being downloaded more than one hundred times, with no comments or even a note... Especially when you have spended hours programming a drumloop or cutting a live record.
I don't blame heavy downloaders (I'm one... 211 files) because I understand that you can download sounds and not use them after.
I can't really blame people who download only but post comments, because comments, as said by Walter, are really rewarding.
But, sometime, I'm nearly to be tempted to send a message "you're an evil lurker..." to some really greedy un-active freesounders, even if I know this really not a solution.
:idea:
What about a sort of proactive reminder ; like sending an automated email to all those un-active freesounders and saying something like "You have downloaded XXX sounds, could you send back to the community ? Upload your sounds !". Something gently, not aggressive... Or maybe something funny like "Uploading samples on freesound will make you more attractive, smart and funny and is really good against skin problems"
What's your opinion ?
Halleck
I came across this article by usability expert Jakob Nielsen, and thought some of you might find it interesting:
http://www.useit.com/alertbox/participation_inequality.htmlJakob Nielsen
In most online communities, 90% of users are lurkers who never contribute, 9% of users contribute a little, and 1% of users account for almost all the action.Not everything is applicable to Freesound, but I found it to be a thought-provoking read.
Comments?
Of the 201463 registered users that the forum lists, how many actually have uploaded sounds? If every single one of those users had only one sound each then we would have more than triple the amount of uploaded sounds that we have now. Maybe there is a flaw or a glitch in the counter that tallies all of the users or something because I know that there aren't nearly that many users on the forums. The main posters are probably Streety, acclivity, LG, LS, and Halleck, the only reason other people take the time to register on FSP is to download free sounds and not give credit to the people who spent time making them.
I make comments from time to time, but there's a limit to how much you'll really want to do that for each sample you download. I usually download a ton not quite sure which files I will end up actually using.
The high download count a file can get should really show to the creator the value the sound has to people.
Definitely a good courtesy anyone should do is tell the creator of the sounds they actually ended up using in their projects.
by NOT pressuring people into uploading sounds, and due to the fact that the upload/describe procedure is rather high, we actually -wasn't meant to- accomplish the high quality of sounds on freesound. Compare freesound to any other online community and you will see the quality of content is very high.
the idea of sending personal reminders isn't bad though...
- bram
Of the 201463 registered users that the forum lists, how many actually have uploaded sounds? If every single one of those users had only one sound each then we would have more than triple the amount of uploaded sounds that we have now.
But some of us on Freesound aren't sound recordists or musicians. We don't have much audio gear, and in my case not even a decent microphone or recorder. The only sounds I could possibly contribute are really annoying quality (video camera built in mic + limiter), and they're always incidentally recorded with the picture. Someday I'd like to record the junk men in my neighbourhood who cruise around with loudspeakers droning offers to pick up my dead fridge (they always have a peculiar Roma-Greek dialect), but that really needs a bit of care or it's just mush.
I make short films, and my work has been helped enormously by this site. I'm grateful, I post links to whatever I have on the web so people can see where their work went, I even edited something for Dare 5, and Freesound inspired me to buy a small sound recording setup later this year. Yeah, it's a good idea to _encourage_ members to contribute in some way to the community - but remember that sound is an extremely versatile thing, and some of us who aren't total audio guys can do cool things with Freesound sounds, which is valuable, no?
Thanks bram for considering my "uploading will make you sexier" idea The success of such an idea is really a matter of psychology and diplomacy. (like the funny "The Friendly Freesound Email Robot" )
And thanks to Thanos for his "reshaping" post. I was a little depressed yesterday, and maybe a little too negative. I would be very happy if my work is used in a movie or A/V production.
Thanos, you can upload your crappy sounds. We are not all audio purist guys, personnaly I'm more a musician and I often use poor quality sounds for their particuliar textures. My "new best" sample pack on freesound is from noisecollector : "Arguments in the attic" : http://freesound.iua.upf.edu/packsViewSingle.php?id=232. Pure lofi-treasure !
Hey Thanos
less excuses! A cam mic on a camcorder can give some cool sounds - I'm really interested in these dustbin men.....
Thanos, you can upload your crappy sounds. We are not all audio purist guys, personnaly I'm more a musician and I often use poor quality sounds for their particuliar textures.
.....
less excuses! A cam mic on a camcorder can give some cool sounds - I'm really interested in these dustbin men
You know, I've been thinking about this thing. I understand perfectly what you are saying, there is a place for crappy sound quality and definitely a need to get over technology inferiority etc. Somewhere on Freesound there are some cool, noisy recordings of someone's neighbours arguing.
Probably I'm just leery of my sound recordings because I used to spend so much time trying desperately to get something decent out of them, and more often than not the result was still thin, the levels were still all over the place. I so hate limiters. Automatic audio limiters were invented by Satan. The truth is, I gave up years ago listening to the audio from the camera mike, but anyway I can't think of a single real 'gem' that's been lost. The things I shoot are all for the image. Sometimes I beg and plead with my musician friends for special sound recordings.
But you're right that there really is no excuse for not recording good sounds anymore, there are so many good little machines around nowadays for cheap. I happen to like tapping on objects to hear what they do, I'd love to record a pin drop. And so in the next few months I'll scrape together some sort of digital audio gadget with manual controls and a small shotgun mike. It still won't be great, but at least it won't be bouncing levels everywhere. And then I'll upload the junk men cruising with their loudspeakers, and the dirt men (they sell bags of dirt for people's balcony plants), and the watermelon men, and the fish men. The drones are almost identical, that style of announcement must be a leftover from Ottoman times, the muezzin. There used to be Rumanian accordion men walking around every day, they seem to have gone somewhere else.
Wow, I'm glad to see that this has sparked such an interesting discussion.
I'm still largely undecided on the "big picture" here, but I'll respond to a couple of individual comments.
Bram
by NOT pressuring people into uploading sounds, and due to the fact that the upload/describe procedure is rather high, we actually -wasn't meant to- accomplish the high quality of sounds on freesound.
DJ Chronos
Maybe there is a flaw or a glitch in the counter that tallies all of the users or something because I know that there aren't nearly that many users on the forums. The main posters are probably Streety, acclivity, LG, LS, and Halleck, the only reason other people take the time to register on FSP is to download free sounds and not give credit to the people who spent time making them.
thanos
The only sounds I could possibly contribute are really annoying quality (video camera built in mic + limiter), and they're always incidentally recorded with the picture.
100% of my sounds are recorded on either a built-in video camera mic as incedental to the picture, or on even crappier equipment hooked up to a computer running Audacity. <snip> Heck, I got 623 downloads and counting on a bit of static I posted which occured during a FLAC conversion hiccup...
Okay, okay. No more excuses. I'm going to go listen to the FLAC static now, and then I'll find something interesting to upload.
You don't want a system set up where users feel the need to upload drivel just so they can get access to more priveliges.
That's very true.