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Started July 20th, 2008 · 35 replies · Latest reply by dobroide 15 years, 9 months ago
Hi all,
By chance I made a finding that surprised me unpleasantly, and I want to share with you. I just came upon a website that sells (or so they intend, ha ha) a few of my vocal samples here at Freesound as ringtones, here's it:
http://www.audiosparx.com/sa/archive/Talking//32931-dobroide-20070330-quevedo-sonet/248271
No reference to license, authorship, nor (and only annoying point, at least to me) to the Freesound Project. They just took the samples with their descriptions and all. That simple. Anyway, I wont spend my time looking for more parasitized samples at the site, but can bet there will be many more. Maybe the whole Freesound database is there?
Ticks, vampires, female mosquitos, intestinal worms, they all have to survive somehow. I really love them, so I don't care much. Was just wondering... are you aware as a contributor that this might happen to your samples (be sold as ringtones)? If you discover a parasite is selling your samples what would be your reaction? (commiting suicide not an option) Do you know of any other cases like the one I mention? Last but not least, what's the meaning of life? (uh? life has no meaning?)
Cheers
D.
EDIT: the link above no longer works, following removal of this specific sample by Audiosparx admins. But see below in this same thread
Well, it's not allowed for two reasons: They must attribute and the sound may only be copied and redistributed for noncommercial purposes. They can take a sample and mix it and transform, then sell with proper attribution.
I know of another case, not with sound, but photos by Adam Curry on flickr: http://creativecommons.org/weblog/entry/5823
The meaning of life is somewhat shady, but it has to do with the fact that everybody should live in total freedom and it is our goal to achieve that as much as possible. Currently, we're far from it.
nemoDaedalus
Well, it's not allowed for two reasons: They must attribute and the sound may only be copied and redistributed for noncommercial purposes. They can take a sample and mix it and transform, then sell with proper attribution.
I know of another case, not with sound, but photos by Adam Curry on flickr: http://creativecommons.org/weblog/entry/5823
The meaning of life is somewhat shady, but it has to do with the fact that everybody should live in total freedom and it is our goal to achieve that as much as possible. Currently, we're far from it.
Yeah, selling freesound samples it's not allowed I'm pretty sure about this... But what bugs me most is these guys try to make money selling something... their customers could get for free at the source (Freesound). Furthermore, their license page claims Audiosparx owns the stuff(!) See here:
http://www.audiosparx.com/sa/license.cfm
This is not only unfair, its also stupid and a demonstration of the dirty nature of many bussinesses around us.
Ps, I checked and.... yes, there are many Freesound samples at the Audiosparx site (Bram, this one is yours: http://www.audiosparx.com/sa/play/play.cfm/sound_iid.248224 , most 'contributed' by an 'artist' nicknamed USAMA
Yeah, they were selling some of my songs as ringtones on some website in Germany, went around in circles trying to get to owner before I gave up on it. Also found some of my sounds in commercials on radio and stuff that were not attributed, what can we do about it?
I need ca$h.
this pisses me off on principle alone... let's sue the bitches (i got 5 on it :wink: )... or better yet... some of the geniuses on freesound should figure out a way to get ALL the sounds from the site for free and tell the world how... what are they gonna do? tell on us for stealing sound back?? or even better still, figure out where the guilty parties live and let's piss on their door handles, crap on their doorsteps, and beat their asses! :twisted:
I think the first action would need to be a notification to audiosparx one of their users is uploading material in a way he isn't allowed to and ask them to take necessary steps to rectify this. No need to threaten with lawsuits yet, it could be a misunderstanding on their user's behalf. Audiosparx should want to keep their stuff clean too, ripped off files gives them a bad name.
I admired your composure Dobroide, because this is dirty. It is not even the money-thing that is so objectionable (although it is definitely not legal without your consent)... but their claim of copyright is perverse! Have you contacted them already?
I have sent a note to Audiosparx which I reproduce below, maybe someone could read it (living and working in Spain I don't trust web contact forms, ha ha, at all!). English is not my first language, and I'm not used to this kind of stuff but hopefully I used a corteous tone.
Oh, and thanks by your support, to all of you!
Cheers
D
------------------------------------
Hello,
I'm sorry to tell your are offering a number of samples illegally, specifically most under:
http://www.audiosparx.com/sa/archive/Talking//32931-dobroide-20070330-quevedo-sonet/248271
, and all other Spanish vocal samples by user USAMA. I know because I am the author of the samples (it's my voice), which were released under a Creative Commons License at www.freesound.org
USAMA just took the samples from Freesound, changed the names of the files a bit and - after some minor modifications to description - uploaded to Audiosparx claiming authorship. You may check, if you wish to compare:
http://www.audiosparx.com/sa/play/play.cfm/sound_iid.248271
with:
http://www.freesound.org/samplesViewSingle.php?id=32931
or:
http://www.audiosparx.com/sa/play/play.cfm/sound_iid.249330
with
http://www.freesound.org/samplesViewSingle.php?id=27327
There are many more examples. Allowing such parasitic behavior at your site gives a very poor image of Audiosparx, and it's in your own interest to remove the offending samples. Please do so.
Yours
Dob R Oide
Thanks for bringing this up Dobroide - it seems that you may have already got some reaction as the links you have given are now coming up with a "no file" message. This does not mean that audiosparx has removed all its stolen freesound files so further action is necessary. USAMA seems like a busy guy - he has 47000 files on there and I would love to know where they all come from. Can freesound.org get involved? I know from personal experience that a lot of files get taken from here and used without permission. This is always going to happen but on this scale it is a serious rip-off.
yes, I got response very fast actually (pasted below). Only problem is they remove only a couple samples I referenced precisely, but I cant spend my time searching the original here, then the copy at Audiosparx, etcetera.
The 'artist' USAMA (which obviously is also a user here, under a different nick) changes files names, and makes slight modifications in the descriptions. Finding out what he/she had been doing was easy in this case due to the the vocal (and Spanish) nature of the samples, but it could be difficult for other sample types. Again, what worries me is the assessment that Freesound can be very easily parasitized, and that sound released under CC license can end up into the dark, Mordor-like landscape of Copyrighted materials. We all should be aware, and be ready to react as... sound must be free
Anyway, the guy is quite pathetic (hope you're reading this, USAMA) because downloaders remain registered at Freesound, so one can get to know a lot.
The response from Audiosparx:
---------
We have confirmed what you are saying and have removed the tracks you referenced in your message. AudioSparx represents content from over 1,400 different content providers and we don't review each track as it is uploaded to the site. Please don't let the improper actions of one content provider be taken as a reflection of AudioSparx in general. If you become aware of any other such tracks of yours on the AudioSparx site don't hesitate to bring them to our attention.
Thanks and regards,
Lee
---
EDIT:
just to prove my assertion that samples taken from Freesound remain in Audiosparx, compare this sample by Bram:
http://www.freesound.org/samplesViewSingle.php?id=19542
with
http://www.audiosparx.com/sa/play/play.cfm/sound_iid.248224
It is good that they have responded quickly but as you say this is probably the tip of the iceberg and if this is their only response it is s total cop-out. If this USAMA user was found to be using and selling material illegally he and all his sounds should be removed immediately from the site. In many other walks of life such blatant theft would be treated as exactly what it is - criminal and liable to prosecution.
Somebody, rape USAMA's skull if you see him live.
Basically, it happens. It's life. But once we've got those who don't accept such behavior, we can make these thieves disappear or at least evoke a response from their conscience.
Be aware.
What an asshole. His user info says he's from Washington D.C. Maybe someone could send him a cease and desist or a fake letter complimenting "his" sounds and wanting to know more about his works. Maybe we can get more info on him and bash the crap out of him at a site or something.
Audiosparx sucks. They'll sell freeish samples and get you into legal trouble for using them incorrectly because they don't show the CC license. Audio Sparx sucks. There, now hopefully we'll show up in search results at least to scare people away from the site.
Wow! I didn't join, so I didn't listen to any sounds, but a quick perusal of the sounds there by USAMA showed at least a dozen or two sounds that I have listened to on freesound. As you say, he doesn't even bother to change the name. At the prices they charge, he could be making a tidy living. It's possible that USAMA is a nym that the owners of autiosparx are using. It wouldn't be too hard for bram to identify him from freesound. Just pick the samples he's stolen, and run a sql query to determine what names are in common with all of them. I saw samples from musical, to gunshots, to explosions, to animals, to ...
If you recognize any of your sounds you should ask them to remove them, but also ask for contact information for USAMA. I think that if you ask for the information for legal purposes, so that you can present a subpoena, they have to provide it.
Hey, look on the bright side. If anyone has used your samples in a movie or commercial without your consent you could have won the lottery.
Perhaps you've always wanted to move to where USAMA lives, and you can take his house and car from him in court.There was a lady recently in Minnesota who was fined hundred of thousands of dollars for letting copyrighted songs be downloaded. Lots of possibilities here.
One other thing that could be done is for freesound.org as an entity to send letters to all the major motion picture and television studios letting them know that audiosparx is selling sound samples for which they claim they have copyright, but in fact have no copyright. Mention that many of those samples are from this website, http://www.freesound.org. Tell them they leave themselves open to potential lawsuits if they ustilize the samples from autiosparx. Copy audiosparx on the correspondence.
Hi,
I sent a comment that I had noticed materials on the site that were similar to those here and received a fast and concerned response. Their head seems to be in the right place.
Here it is.
...
AudioSparx provides a marketplace for vendors and owners of audio content a place to sell their products. We take very seriously any complaints of copyright violation and improperly sub-licensed content, and will promptly remove any such offending content from the site once it is brought to our attention and substantiated.
Which content are you referring to specifically? Do you have catalog id numbers you can provide? We will contact any vendors that act contrary to our licensing requirements and/or is violating the copyrights of content owners. Please note that as a marketplace service provider, per the DMCA AudioSparx is not responsible for any improper content that our vendors place on the site, but we will certainly act to correct any specific situations that are brought to our attention. Any help you can provide in that regard is appreciated.
Regards,
Lee Johnson
lee@audiosparx.com
...
wisslgisse, thanx for your interest
I have compiled a preliminary list of samples stolen by USAMA from Freesound, see below. In the mean time (and until I can find the time to write to Audiosparx again) I will enjoy the pleasure of googling USAMA+Audiosparx and getting a post (this post) about sample theft, Audiosparx, USAMA, parasites of Creative Commons stuff, etcetera Of course I will keep searching for stolen samples at Audiosparx, how not!
As people reading this may want to check by themselves, here's my (preliminary) list:
http://www.audiosparx.com/sa/play/play.cfm/sound_iid.249310
vs
http://www.freesound.org/samplesViewSingle.php?id=22691
http://www.audiosparx.com/sa/play/play.cfm/sound_iid.248274
vs
http://www.freesound.org/samplesViewSingle.php?id=33790
http://www.audiosparx.com/sa/play/play.cfm/sound_iid.248273
vs
http://www.freesound.org/samplesViewSingle.php?id=33700
http://www.audiosparx.com/sa/play/play.cfm/sound_iid.248252
vs
http://www.freesound.org/samplesViewSingle.php?id=29654
http://www.audiosparx.com/sa/play/play.cfm/sound_iid.249331
vs
http://www.freesound.org/samplesViewSingle.php?id=27350
http://www.audiosparx.com/sa/play/play.cfm/sound_iid.248251
vs
http://www.freesound.org/samplesViewSingle.php?id=29653
http://www.audiosparx.com/sa/play/play.cfm/sound_iid.248240
vs
http://www.freesound.org/samplesViewSingle.php?id=22381
http://www.audiosparx.com/sa/play/play.cfm/sound_iid.248240
vs
http://www.freesound.org/samplesViewSingle.php?id=19544
http://www.audiosparx.com/sa/play/play.cfm/sound_iid.248222
vs
http://www.freesound.org/samplesViewSingle.php?id=19540
http://www.audiosparx.com/sa/play/play.cfm/sound_iid.248225
vs
http://www.freesound.org/samplesViewSingle.php?id=19543
Cheers
D
EDIT: a google search for audiosparx+sound theft shows this post, just like audiosparx+stolen. Isn't funny?
Just last month my dad was watching a video on YouTube posted by the American Conservative Union (ACU) that same day. At the end of the video I heard a familiar sound and sure enough it was MY OWN. I looked at their credits, the short description, even their tags...no attribution. I signed up for a Youtube account just to call em out on it. I hassled them with an ultimatum stating that if they didn't attribute me then I'd be forced to contact Creative Commons and the owner of Freesound. The next day the person that posted the video added my Freesound screen name onto the credits.
If one person has used my sounds without attributing then I'm sure a few hundred others have as well. Same goes for almost every other user on Freesound. It's not fair and it's not right but logically speaking we'll never track down every single person who was infringed upon this license and robbed us of our time and effort (not to mention our well deserved money).
You just have to look on the bright side of it. Do a Google search of your Freesound screen name and see how many people have used, appreciated, and credited your sounds.
I searched my screen name and found many works scattered over 15 pages of Google that have used my sounds.
It's good to know that a few people out there obey the rules and show common courtesy to their fellow man.
wisslgisse
Hi,I sent a comment that I had noticed materials on the site that were similar to those here and received a fast and concerned response. Their head seems to be in the right place.
Here it is.
...
AudioSparx provides a marketplace for vendors and owners of audio content a place to sell their products. We take very seriously any complaints of copyright violation and improperly sub-licensed content, and will promptly remove any such offending content from the site once it is brought to our attention and substantiated.Which content are you referring to specifically? Do you have catalog id numbers you can provide? We will contact any vendors that act contrary to our licensing requirements and/or is violating the copyrights of content owners. Please note that as a marketplace service provider, per the DMCA AudioSparx is not responsible for any improper content that our vendors place on the site, but we will certainly act to correct any specific situations that are brought to our attention. Any help you can provide in that regard is appreciated.
Regards,
Lee Johnson
lee@audiosparx.com
...
I am not sure this indicates their head is in the right place. It has already been brought to their attention that one of their "vendors" is selling illegal material and yet he is still there strutting his stuff. If they took violations seriously they would have removed him and his files immediately. Clearly they take a cut from each sale and with thousands of files under USAMA's name they may stand to lose a good income stream. It should not matter. Secondly they claim they are not responsible for the actions of their vendors. I think this is plain wrong and they have already made an acceptance of liability in Dobroide's case. NAPSTER - ring a bell?
Another big factor is the sheer volume of sounds under USAMA'S name. Anyone who has uploaded a lot of individual files to freesound knows just how time consuming it is. And that does not take into account the time spent in making them! It is impossible to imagine creating and/or legally acquiring 47,000 files and uploading them without some sort of mass appropriation. It has taken me 18 months and many many hours to get 800+ files on freesound.
We have to be pragmatic about what happens at freesound - although I am sure that many downloads are made without the sounds being used but there have been over 7 million downloads so far and it is certain that a lot of those have been used without credit. It will always happen. Personally I can live with that. It is noticeable that even though a file may have had 2 or 3 thousand downloads I only get a handful of links or acknowledgements and that tells its own story. Again I don't have a problem with that - most will be used in amateur non commercial projects and that is fine. What is different about audiosparx is that they are stealing the sounds and selling them as their own which is incredible.
I think we should put pressure on them to remove USAMA and every effort should be made to find out his freesound ID. Of course anyone with such larcenous tendencies will pop up under a new name but for now it's all we can do.
One thing I have done is identify the illegal activity on my Internet Security software's site assessment page.