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Started December 13th, 2011 · 22 replies · Latest reply by AlienXXX 12 years, 3 months ago
If you aren't familiar with EMDR it's a therapy that uses alternating sounds from one ear to another. I'm working with traumatic therapy and trying to help them using this technique. It's a very calm beeping sound that goes from the left ear then to the right then back and forth. I need an hour of this so I can put it on my website and do internet therapy. Please help me with this. It really helps all types of trauma in the patients I work with. I might have to talk with you on the phone if that's ok. I have a machine that does the sound I can offer as a sample. Thank you very much.
tttapeeeva10 wrote:
If you aren't familiar with EMDR it's a therapy that uses alternating sounds from one ear to another.
Sounds something like "binaural beats" ... http://www.freesound.org/people/NoiseCollector/packs/2647/
http://www.freesound.org/people/Timbre/sounds/123636/
Thanks, it's a similar concept but much different. In bilateral the sound is only in one ear at a time. A tone goes off in the left ear, then stops. then another tone goes off in the right ear then stops. Then back and forth as the patient recalls traumatic events. The sound is only in one ear at a time. Can you help?
tttapeeeva10 wrote:
... Can you help?
Sorry, it's not something I'd want to be involved with ... http://www.quackwatch.org/01QuackeryRelatedTopics/emdr.html
You're a fool. Quackwatch probably has the same type of nonsensical write up for biaural. Biaural is just silliness, and no real therapists use it. EMDR is widely accepted in the field, and if you knew anything at all you'd know this. Biaural is a joke with absolutely no research to support it's concepts. EMDR has tons of research that support it. Get real stupid. Now go along and play, there are serious people who need help, and if I'm not mistaken this is your cry for help. Sorry, I don't deal with people with anger issues.
tttapeeeva10 wrote:
... Quackwatch probably has the same type of nonsensical write up for biaural. Biaural is just silliness, and no real therapists use it ... Biaural is a joke with absolutely no research to support it's concepts.
I have never claimed binaural beats have any beneficial effect.
tttapeeeva10 wrote:
You're a fool ... Get real stupid. Now go along and play
Instead of attempting to be insulting and condescending you could have posted links to some of the "tons" of research which support the efficacy of this alleged therapy. If convincing readers may assist you.
tttapeeeva10 wrote:
if I'm not mistaken this is your cry for help. Sorry, I don't deal with people with anger issues.
You are mistaken: you are the only angry person here.
The manner in which you have responded speaks volumes as to your fitness to diagnose and counsel persons with psychiatric illness.
Timbre wrote:tttapeeeva10 wrote:
... Can you help?Sorry, it's not something I'd want to be involved with ... http://www.quackwatch.org/01QuackeryRelatedTopics/emdr.html
How is a polite reply like this angry ?
Maybe you should consider a career change.
tttapeeeva10 wrote:
You're a fool. Quackwatch probably has the same type of nonsensical write up for biaural. Biaural is just silliness, and no real therapists use it. EMDR is widely accepted in the field, and if you knew anything at all you'd know this. Biaural is a joke with absolutely no research to support it's concepts. EMDR has tons of research that support it. Get real stupid. Now go along and play, there are serious people who need help, and if I'm not mistaken this is your cry for help. Sorry, I don't deal with people with anger issues.
Quackwatch mentions the method used and shows why the method of researching the effect is flawed.
No matter how many tons of this flawed research. With the same arguments you should have been a bible fanatic, considering how many theologists there are.
tttapeeeva10.....if you have found that EMDR helps your trauma patients then all well and good.Taking a beep sound(that you already have)and swinging it left to right is not difficult and should not take long using a (freeware)programme like Audacity.By making it yourself you can experiment with any adjustments that you think/find works best.
Quote: Biaural is just silliness, and no real therapists use it. EMDR is widely accepted in the field, and if you knew anything at all you'd know this.
Outright rejection of one theory in favour of another can maybe be justified in the science lab but in the big wide world people find relief in all kinds of ways that are often incomprehensible...the central role of the therapist is to understand and help,not judge and be dismissive.
I don't now what this is all about but is this something; a free emdr software pack?
http://download.cnet.com/EMDR-Aid/3000-2129_4-10863922.html
Regarding EMDR:
First, the Quackwatch write up on EMDR is outdated and superficial. Some in the skeptic community are much more motivated about feeling superior and condemning than actually doing the work necessary to understand the issues involved in psychotherapy research.
Second, EMDR is highly researched, and there is sophisticated research published in peer-reviewed journals. The bulk of professional opinion is not stirred to the evangelical heights that some EMDR proponents have been, but it is still definitely positive. EMDR is accepted by the VA, major insurers, and national clinical organizations.
Third, You have to understand the history of desensitization and cognitive therapy to really get EMDR on a theoretical basis. People that say it's an energy therapy are just misinformed (by who, I don't know--no EMDR people I know of have so much as implied that). Start with Wolpe in 1955 and go on from there if you want to get a theoretical grounding. Include research on depotentiation of implicit memory for tantalizing clues as to where the science is likely to go--and for hints as to how psychotherapy of trauma and anxiety may be headed, beyond EMDR as we understand it.
If you want a more populist, general version of desensitization and reprocessing, read my free Shimmering Workbook and follow me on Twitter as RYourell. It goes well with bilateral sound.
As for the sounds:
Bilateral (not binaural brainwave entrainment) sound provides a stimulus for EMDR that many people like. Bias alert: I have used it since 1994, and I created one about that time called UpLevel available through Amazon and my own site, PsychInnovations.com.
And yes, it is easy to make a simple bilateral sound. Use the panning setting of your software. If you want to go for aesthetics, you can hear some tracks on my site and maybe get some ideas about how to do something more pleasant than just beeps or just a simple sweeping sound.
How I came about my opinions:
I am an EMDR-trained psychotherapist with diverse experience. I have worked with veterans, police, addiction, and other populations. I spend a lot of my time reading up on research that has bearing on psychotherapy. I write continuing education courses, and that inspires me even more to be up-to-date.
Best of Luck,
Bob
Robert A. Yourell
Yourell.com
Robert Yourell wrote:
the Quackwatch write up on EMDR is outdated and superficial.
an “outdated and superficial” article* which was updated in 2011 and references over forty five publications.
[* written by a professor of psychology].
Caveat Emptor
Amazing, he finally updated that train wreck! ...and is acknowledging progress in the research. And he put real work into it! But it led me to generate a wish list of things that would make discussion of EMDR a lot more productive:
A discussion of EMDR is not complete without looking at the current work on depotentiation of traumatic memory--and through varied means, even the mental equivalent of a morning-after pill for trauma. And this can't be understood without getting to know unconscious (implicit) memory. Even with my deep appreciation of EMDR as a practitioner, I'm very interested in what's on the horizon that may modify or eclipse EMDR.
I wish for more focus on active ingredients of therapy. It's very much under development, but already a very rich area to explore. So much of the execution of various components of therapy appear to depend on priming and other aspects of state recruitment (developing physical states that enable and motivate people to accomplish a specific task such as experiencing a traumatic memory in a non-anxious state), for example. And what a difficult thing to isolate as a variable, when it is done unconsciously and through very subtle factors such as voice tone and body language. Could it be that a certain amount of fanaticism is an active ingredient of persuasion and state generation? Can you bottle that, somehow? (I mean systematize it? It's been done with other "hidden" aspects of therapy before.) Tell me if it's already been done.
I suspect that, as therapy is perceived with better biological understanding (among other things), we won't feel so comfortable just talking about therapy approaches as if they are as unified and boundaried as they appear to be in a research monograph or textbook.
Talking about whether EMDR "treats" schizophrenia is a good example of this blocky thinking. Insofar as EMDR facilitates cognitive reappraisal by helping people experience thoughts with less anxiety (that's where the desensitization comes in), numerous problems can be aided with EMDR (or other desensitization methods) serving a role. I'm speaking as a clinician on the front lines who has do deal with what knowledge is available, not what research "should" exist.
I'm critical of the EMDR advocates framing EMDR as a complete psychotherapy instead of as a modality to integrate into psychotherapy. I understand arguments in favor of their position, but I think it causes more problems than it helps. One bad outcome is that you have these discussions isolating EMDR as a variable when treatment is more complicated than that.
I can't fathom why more attention isn't given to the advantages of EMDR in terms of the lower number of sessions and the lower level of distress involved in EMDR vs. other exposure therapies.
I wish researchers would take that into account, and in any therapy they are evaluating. It isn't unusual to see those factors considered in medicine. Why isn't there more focus on that in mental health treatment research?
Where bilateral stim does not show superiority, I think it's because it serves a function that other exposure therapies achieve in other ways. Go back to Wolpe and systematic desensitization and see how he used various means to achieve relaxation and exposure at the same time. He settled on progressive relaxation, but many techniques were used. With cats, it was feeding during exposure.
For studies in which bilateral stim does not show a difference, then I'd look for something being done purposely or inadvertently to achieve exposure with relaxation, since that appears to be such a critical element of treatment for anxiety, panic, PTSD, and phobias in particular. I'm pretty sure that's the main benefit of bilateral stim. (But I'm not saying we should stop there.)
When viewing EMDR through the lens of exposure therapy, people should take care not to assume too much about what (and how much) of exposure therapy components are necessary. So much of talk about EMDR is tied up in assumptions. I wish people that want to opine about EMDR would take in more comments (good bad or neutral) from people who have experienced EMDR. Not because it proves anything (yes, I know about Mesmer) but because it helps in understanding the points under discussion. The subjective experience of EMDR is interesting and illuminating.
Have a look at the FAQ here for additional ideas: http://www.emdr.com/faqs.html
Bob
Thank you. Don't waste your time talking politely to people on the internet. Unfortunately it's a serious waste of your valueable time. When people respond to something they way they did on this thread they are obviously not looking for the truth. They are merely silly kids looking for a reaction. As funny as it is, it's still a waste. I sincerely appreciate your reply and the thought put into it. I only wish the haters would learn from it instead of trying to continue their silliness. You seem like a good therapist. I on the other hand don't have the patients it takes to deal with idiots. I have people lined up out the door that have given their life and even their limbs while serving this country, and don't tolerate cowards who sit on their computers in their moms basement and insult these fine soldiers by attempting to take away their treatmetn. Maybe i should send a few over to visit the people on this site who are insulting their treatment and see how committed they are to calling it quackery. ahahaha.. Again Bob, Thank you.
Oh and Timbe, please go fuck off somewhere else or I'll tell your mommy...
Hi TTT, and ttthanks!
You're right--I do like to post some detail in my replys to these folks, though, so others can read if they are interested, and so there is a rebuttle right there. Also, it helps me begin the process of writing blog entrys and what noy. I post blogs now and then on BrainBlogger.com, for example, and am rounding out my Shimmering Workbook online.
One thing that's pretty much guaranteed: When you challenge those folks to do anything resembling work, they either change the subject or evaporate.
I'm glad to hear about your work with veterans. I used to do contract work for the VA after Desert Storm. Keep up the good work!
P.S., I'm not saying he's a troll, but it isn't good skepticism to form opinions based on too little info.
AlienXXX wrote:tttapeeeva10 wrote:
Oh and Timbe, please go fuck off somewhere else or I'll tell your mommy...Watch it!
It is fine to discuss and disagree, but this type of language can get you banned!
AlienXXX this is not the first time a sentence has appeared in the Freesound forum which contains the f-word and a reference to my late mother … http://www.freesound.org/forum/freesound-project/6307/?page=1#post26781 :¬)
I don’t have a problem with these vulgar remarks: they are effectively an admission by the poster that their position is indefensible, so don't ban anyone on my account.
tttapeeeva10 wrote:
Oh and Timbe, please go fuck off somewhere else or I'll tell your mommy...
tttapeeeva10 wrote in the first post: "I'm working with traumatic therapy and trying to help them using this technique".
I hope you are more polite to your patients!