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    Dare 10 -The minimalist half-dozen - RESULTS AND DISCUSSION


    Hmmm... this is an intersting one...
    Firs of all the points:

    Kyster 54
    afleetingspec 51
    ThatJeffCarter 48
    jgeralyn 46
    Schluppiepuppie 43
    Michael Trickery 38 (disqualified - did not vote)
    Cannonrayj 38
    OSH37 35 (disqualified - did not vote)
    bebops 34 (disqualified - did not vote)
    Copyc4t 25
    saoe 23 (disqualified - did not vote)
    AlienXXX 18
    Escortmarius 15
    klankbeeld 9 (disqualified - did not vote)
    toiletrolltube 8 (disqualified - entry withdrawwn)
    Puniho 6 (disqualified - late entry)

    So, the list of winners is:

    1st place Kyster, 54 points
    2nd place afleetingspec, 51 points
    3rd place ThatJeffCarter, 48 points
    4th place jgeralyn, 46 points
    5th place Schluppiepuppie, 43 points
    6th place Cannonrayj, 38 points
    7th place Copyc4t, 25 points
    8th place AlienXXX, 18 points
    9th place Escortmarius, 15 points

    I am quite sad to see so many enries disqualified: 7 out of 16 almost half!
    I always expect a couple of people to miss the deadline for posting or voting. - I know life gets in the way and stuff....
    But this is quite a high number (and some people who did not vote would otherwise have got a really good ranking)so maybe you people could tell me if something went wrong with this dare.
    Did people not realize voting was part of the rules?
    Did people get upset that I requested that each defined a criteria to 'explain' their voting?
    Was it that for some defining minimalist was a problem and they could not quite rate the entries?

    I don't know, but that is why I have called this thread 'voting and DISCUSSION' as I would like to hear back from you to understand if there was something that could have been done better.

    From my part, I thought this dare was very educational, even if it was not the dare entry I most enjoyed doing. - For me personally, there was a great deal of learning from others' entries and from the discussions that took place.
    I would like to share my learnings and thoughts, but I would like to collect your feedback first. I would not want my comments to influence you on any way.

    hmmmm..... erm..... I forgot...
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    Congratulations, Kyster! Just for the minimalism and the overall mood (and creativity), you deserved winning this!

    About the dare: I think the dare was very, very educational. Learning within restrictions, I think, is one of the best types of learning because you HAVE to get creative with all the limitations, and in the process you discover so many new things (and makes you humble and appreciative the "modern" tools you have at your disposal).
    I wholeheartedly enjoyed the dare except for one part (about my own piece): I got a bit carried away with the groove. I wanted to have some minimalism in the overall end product as well. Ah well. But all in all, I really loved this dare for forcing me to think differently (and I daresay, I actually LEARNED quite a few things and techniques which I wouldn't have probably tried for a long, long time to come).

    I won't comment on the voting system because each time someone supports or rejects something about the voting guidelines, I like both the sides of the argument, and they both seem good enough, so I don't know which to side by anymore. I am swaying back and forth on that front, so, well yeah. That.

    Thanks for the dare, AlienXXX! I enjoyed doing this more than dare 8, but loved it as much as dare 9. A "dare" in the literal sense, this. smile

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    Hey wow.... thanks smile

    I think AlienXXX deserves a big thank you once again, for taking his time to figure these nice dares out. And somewhere down the line, in one of that dare 10 threads, i think he mentioned something about us having to describe why we did what we did with our versions of the dare, so this might be as good a place as any:

    To tell the truth, i really wasn't up for this dare. I was too short of time, with work and all, to feel that i had a chance of making a dare entry that wasn't just made to be in on the dare. I fetched all the sounds though, just to know what i would have to work with, if i'd get some time left at some point. So a late night i sat and listened to the material given to us, while arguing in my head about what to do with it. At some point i kinda made up my mind that it would be this arguement that would be my dare entry. You know, the devil / angel on my shoulder thing. I made it, not knowing what voice would belong to what figure, and just as a reminder to my self, that sometimes we have to listen to things that comes not always from good reason, but also things that comes from doubt and uncertainty. A kind of dare to one self.

    So that's what it's about, a discussion in my head.

    I had my doubts about uploading it all too long, so i decided to just go ahead and do it.

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    Nice one Kyster!!

    And thank you AlienXXX for making this possible!

    To all the rest of you, see you in the next dare............ smile

    Record all the crap you can!! doesnt matter if it sounds like shit.
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    Almost forgot...
    .... I meant to post some special mentions smile

    ------------------
    SPECIAL MENTIONS
    ------------------

    Special mentions - If I feel like you have done something special your name will be here:

    -> New 'daring' Freesounders for jumping head first into a dare: Michael Trickery, OSH37, soneproject and Cannonrayj
    -> Kyster for best achieved piece in the context of this 'minimalist' dare
    -> Michael Trickery and Kyster for best tittle
    -> Klankbeeld and Toiletrolltube for doing "their own thing"
    -> Schluppiepuppie for best effects/creativity with samples

    ----> All for putting up with my ridiculous demands and rules for the dares!

    hmmmm..... erm..... I forgot...
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    I have to say this voting system reminds me of picking sides for basketball at school. I was always the last to be picked then... Not feeling sorry formyself and I wasnt happy with my own track, however I still dont feel it was as bad as was reflected in the voting! As for being what... maybe half an hour late with postign it...? Well the reason for that is that as usuall for me, I was working on it right up to the last minute or to be more accurate, into the early hours of the morning. I finished and checked the international time and I had about 7 hours left - I was exhausted and thought I'd do all the uploading and soundcloud stuff after a few hours sleep. When I uploaded it and checked the forum I was quite surprised to see that AlienXXX had just posted his entry and declared "no more entries", so I was late. The same thing happened with the voting, I had made my list and written my thoughts on all the pieces and when I logged on to the forum again it was "no more votes" so I didnt bother.

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    Puniho wrote:
    I have to say this voting system reminds me of picking sides for basketball at school. I was always the last to be picked then... Not feeling sorry formyself and I wasnt happy with my own track, however I still dont feel it was as bad as was reflected in the voting! As for being what... maybe half an hour late with postign it...? Well the reason for that is that as usuall for me, I was working on it right up to the last minute or to be more accurate, into the early hours of the morning. I finished and checked the international time and I had about 7 hours left - I was exhausted and thought I'd do all the uploading and soundcloud stuff after a few hours sleep. When I uploaded it and checked the forum I was quite surprised to see that AlienXXX had just posted his entry and declared "no more entries", so I was late. The same thing happened with the voting, I had made my list and written my thoughts on all the pieces and when I logged on to the forum again it was "no more votes" so I didnt bother.

    Hi Puniho

    I know it sucks! Sorry!
    I am still to post all track reviews.... maybe that will then make you feel it was worthwhile (at least a bit).

    However, deadlines is the one rule I plan to be strict about. Why?
    Because voting does not start until submissions are closed. And the next dare does not start until voting on the previous one closes...
    So, the only way to keep this going and have a dare a month is to enforce the deadlines.
    The closing of the votes is also essential for me... only when votes close can I add them up and work out people's scores. - Imagine I post the scores and announce a winner only to find that someone else voted and the winner is now somebody else?
    The deadlines are clearly stated in the rules - I ALLWAYS make sure of that - and I am afraid they are here to stay.

    If you are on the other side of the world... partially it works against you, as the deadline for you is effectively the day before tongue
    But, if I post the dare late at night, as I often do, then you can start before everybody else. - They will all still be asleep and will only see the dare the following day.
    So, try and see it that way smile

    hmmmm..... erm..... I forgot...
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    congrats to the winners!

    AlienXXX, asking to your question, and in all honesty, I don't really like voting. For me the dares end whith the discussion, opinions, comments, etc.
    Your voting sysytem is fine, It's the VOTING alltogether I don't like.
    I mean, Who am I to say your track is better than the neighbour's? The first time I did it I had to listen several times to each track, dissecting them, taking notes, deciding why this one is better than the other one, it took a lot of time, and I really didn't enjoy that. In the end I realized some people where left out of my voting and I thought that was unfair.

    On a side note, I was very busy during this dare's voting period, so I couldn't find the time to listen to all the tracks again and do it properly.

    So all in all, I prefer not to vote and be disqualified. Sad but true. What I love about dares is the challenge, the creative foundation, and the fact there is a deadline. smile then the discussion, comments, etc, is of course very welcome. It encourages us even more, and it's nice. But being forced to vote and give POINTS, that I don't like. Sorry.

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    You and me are on the same boat, bebops!
    I hate voting!
    For one, it is unidimensional: you are supposed to condense all aspects of each song into one number and then rate them all based on that number...
    And then, i am myselfe a strange beast: depending on my mood, there are some songs i will enjoy and others not so much. But change my mood and it could be the reverse! How do you factor that in?!

    Voting is here by popular demand... I think, for people who don't like voting it is a case of 'taking one for the team'. We should participate in all aspects of the dare to make it fun for everyone!
    Plus... Really... Everyone likes getting votes! smile

    Everytime I sit down to undertike the difficult exercise of voting i do 3 things. Maybe these will help you too:
    - i remind myself that it is not my vote that counts. It is a stwtistical process: if a track gets lots of points, then the author must have done something right!
    - i always write reviews (often more detailed than what i end up posting). I go through those notes as i listen again to help my rate each piece. How does it sound? What are its strong and weak points?
    - finally, if possible, i try to apply an overlying, over-ruling criteria to all pieces (often i look for the piece's emotional imPact on me: does it transmit feelings or a strong message?). Then i use this as the deciding criteria for pieces where the technical aspects are equally matched.

    It is still always a very difficult process...

    hmmmm..... erm..... I forgot...
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    Thanks AlienXXX for your tips.
    I really understand the importance of voting and see the positive part about it. I guess it's just me, who doesn't like competition.

    ok, I'll think about what you just said and I promise to try again next time! wink

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    bebops wrote:
    Thanks AlienXXX for your tips.
    I really understand the importance of voting and see the positive part about it. I guess it's just me, who doesn't like competition.

    ok, I'll think about what you just said and I promise to try again next time! wink

    Just trying to help. But don't force yourself if you don't want to do it.

    hmmmm..... erm..... I forgot...
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    I'd like to offer a suggestion: that the voting be made anonimously. People would make their votes and send them to AlienXXX or whoever is running it. I realize that this is not entirely anonomous as the person recieving the votes would see them. however I can't think of a way around that. This would avoid the all too human tendancy to vote for whoever voted for you in the past etc.

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    We can certainly give secret voting a try.
    You guys would have to send me all the votes by PM and then trust me to add them up.
    I am happy to do this since there are no prizes involved.

    Anyone else wants tho chip in to support / reject this proposal?

    hmmmm..... erm..... I forgot...
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    I absolutely support Puniho's suggestion about anonymous voting. I always feel guilty about leaving people out, so this would help a lot.

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    I dont like to vote too, only did it becouse I had to.
    Dont think secret voting will help for me, but if it helps for someone else Im in.
    Anyway I just vote for what I like to hear, not for how its made, VERY PERSONAL!!!
    Lol There were comments on my piece that I have no clue what they are about, I dont understand what the words mean. smile needed a dictionary........

    Record all the crap you can!! doesnt matter if it sounds like shit.
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    Well done, Kyster! Congrats! smile

    bebops wrote:
    congrats to the winners!

    AlienXXX, asking to your question, and in all honesty, I don't really like voting. For me the dares end whith the discussion, opinions, comments, etc.
    Your voting sysytem is fine, It's the VOTING alltogether I don't like.
    I mean, Who am I to say your track is better than the neighbour's? The first time I did it I had to listen several times to each track, dissecting them, taking notes, deciding why this one is better than the other one, it took a lot of time, and I really didn't enjoy that. In the end I realized some people where left out of my voting and I thought that was unfair.


    AlienXXX wrote:
    I hate voting!
    For one, it is unidimensional: you are supposed to condense all aspects of each song into one number and then rate them all based on that number...
    And then, i am myselfe a strange beast: depending on my mood, there are some songs i will enjoy and others not so much. But change my mood and it could be the reverse! How do you factor that in?!

    Voting is here by popular demand... I think, for people who don't like voting it is a case of 'taking one for the team'. We should participate in all aspects of the dare to make it fun for everyone!
    Plus... Really... Everyone likes getting votes! smile


    I... "copy" these completely. My first idea was to submit an entry but ask not to vote it as I planned to be disqualified by not voting; then I thought it'd partly defy the dare, and forced myself to accept the idea.

    Knowing how hard it'd be for me, I started early to take little notes, and copies of my comments, hoping they could help but, let alone the top 1, they just were "all there" for different reasons.
    So, as the deadline was approaching, I fully immersed again into listening all the tracks, and really let the mood of that moment put entries in some order that would have surely been different if done at another time.

    And yes, liking getting votes... More than liking, I was at first surprised that my entry, admittedly a low quality, rushed, unfinished, unpolished joke, got points from the first voters.
    Given their skills, their talent, and the dare criteria, I expected to score 0 in total and I was fine with that, as the making already gave me my share of fun and learning.
    But what surprised me the most, is that I made it into every voter's top 10!
    I won't question how that could happen, and I will just thank you all and enjoy the warm fuzzy feeling wink

    ...a feeling with a dark side that screams guilt! I know I said in advance that even the entries I left out were all good to me, but I still feel being so unfair, especially as my mood of the moment made me exclude those who succeeded the most in being minimalist to the bone. Your works had impact on me, and in another moment/mood the rankings would have been different. You've all been the mountain I can't compare to the grass...

    Puniho wrote:
    I'd like to offer a suggestion: that the voting be made anonimously. People would make their votes and send them to AlienXXX or whoever is running it. I realize that this is not entirely anonomous as the person recieving the votes would see them. however I can't think of a way around that. This would avoid the all too human tendancy to vote for whoever voted for you in the past etc.

    ...so, I copy this too. I would still feel bad for unfair exclusions, but I could hide it better wink

    [We brake for no one]
    (mandatory tail plate for another behemoth-post smile )

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    copyc4t wrote:
    [We brake for no one]
    (mandatory tail plate for another behemoth-post smile )

    Ahahahaha!

    Back the anonymous voting, as long as we don't risk losing reviews on our pieces from different dare-contributors. Usually with the voting, we include comments and other things; without the "visible" voting, I hope that aspect doesn't go away. smile

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    Actually, I think it can help reviews being more free, each for itself, not in comparison, avoiding things like:

    X - I like this a lot! 10 points
    Y - I like this a lot! no points

    grin

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    copyc4t wrote:
    Actually, I think it can help reviews being more free, each for itself, not in comparison, avoiding things like:

    X - I like this a lot! 10 points
    Y - I like this a lot! no points

    grin

    What I mean to say is that I hope the chance or the likelihood of someone posting at all (because you do not have the excuse to post anymore since the voting is anon/goes directly to A-XXX) doesn't decrease. smile

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    copyc4t wrote:

    And yes, liking getting votes... More than liking, I was at first surprised that my entry, admittedly a low quality, rushed, unfinished, unpolished joke, got points from the first voters.
    Given their skills, their talent, and the dare criteria, I expected to score 0 in total and I was fine with that, as the making already gave me my share of fun and learning.
    But what surprised me the most, is that I made it into every voter's top 10!
    I won't question how that could happen, and I will just thank you all and enjoy the warm fuzzy feeling wink

    ...a feeling with a dark side that screams guilt!

    No need to feel bad! smile dares are fun!
    Lets keep it this way, and dont make things to complicated.
    I think its already a lot of work making an entry, and the rest is not so important(no entries no dare)
    So maybe, its better not to vote, there is no reward anyway.
    The comments alone are enough for me smile
    All people here are thinking so different from one and other, its really hard to compare their pieces.
    Maybe a part of the dare has to change, something like rules for voting when the dare opens.
    Then everyone will know how they will be judged in advance.
    I dont know, but I want to make it work smile

    Record all the crap you can!! doesnt matter if it sounds like shit.
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