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    253 sounds
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    Seems my sound was used without attribution...


    It has been brought to my attention that a sound of mine has possibly been used on a recent album by a group called "The Prodigy" on their album "Invaders Must Die" on the Track "Omen". I listened to the song and I am %99.9 sure is my sound. I purchased the album and there is no reference to me or freesound.org anywhere in the liner notes.

    I'm not really too up-in-arms about this, as I am extremely liberal about this stuff (I always like to see creativity occur uninhibited and am very relaxed about how my stuff is used). However, I am concerned that my sound might have been lifted by a third party from freesound.org, and that that might possibly be how it was used The Prodigy without attribution. Does Bram or anyone know if anything like this has been found to have occurred in the past?

    For the curious, here is the sample in question:

    http://www.freesound.org/samplesViewSingle.php?id=1518

    And here is the "Omen" track from "The Prodigy":

    http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=xMVTKOoy1uk

    the sample can be heard quite clearly around 0:22 and 1:10 and in a few other places.

    Nic Stage - Field recorder organism
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    0 sounds
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    I listened to the video at the two times you mentioned, and then played your sample.

    It's uncanny how much they sound alike. They are even the same pitch, but the one in the song is processed to make it sound fatter, if it is indeed your sample.

    What I would suggest doing is that if you have the track "The Omen" on you computer, and an audio sequencer (Ableton Live, Cubase, etc.) bring both audio files into the program into two different tracks, then line up the two and look at the wave forms and compare. I would do it for you but I dont have the track and dont want to spend 99 cents on it on iTunes.

    If indeed they match, notify the manager of the prodigy, their record label and artists themselves and bring this issue up.

    And even though it might not matter to you that much, I think that under the CCL they are required by law to state that they used your sample by either saying that they used samples from freesound.org or you in particular, though I havnt read any of the specifics.

    Its a really sweet sample.
    Good luck!

  • avatar
    15 sounds
    135 posts


    Is it possible that they just ended up using a similar technique/synths to how you created your sound?

    I can definitely hear the similarity/possibility it is your sound. It also sounds like they're using a keyboardish set up to produce it musically in different ways in the song. Does that mean its actually a fairly common technique? I don't know how you prove that exactly though as it is sorta different in execution. (but then that could just mean they tweaked it)

    :?

    That sucks if somewhere along the way whether it was Prodigy themselves or bought it from some other person who sold your sample as their own.

    Maybe a real audiophile or lawyer knows better how to figure this out...

  • avatar
    121 sounds
    1544 posts


    hmm, interesting....

    I'm not 100% convinced it's the same sound, but it very well *could* be.

    A while I contacted a record label who had used our very infamous "printer" sound from freesound. They were very amazed by the fact that the original creator of the song hadn't mentioned it to them, and they appologized thoroughly, in the end donating 200 UKP to freesound!

    Perhaps it's worth sending a note to the legal department of whatever label is releasing the album after you have investigated a bit more?

    - bram

    Warning: if you break the rules, see my avatar. Freesound Admin, Moderator, Ex-Freesound-Coder & Benevolent Dictator For Life.
  • avatar
    253 sounds
    86 posts


    Bram
    hmm, interesting....

    I'm not 100% convinced it's the same sound, but it very well *could* be.

    A while I contacted a record label who had used our very infamous "printer" sound from freesound. They were very amazed by the fact that the original creator of the song hadn't mentioned it to them, and they appologized thoroughly, in the end donating 200 UKP to freesound!

    Perhaps it's worth sending a note to the legal department of whatever label is releasing the album after you have investigated a bit more?

    - bram

    I've played with samples quite a bit before and I'm almost certain it is my sound (Time compressed to be a bit faster and EQ'd a bit). The only reason I say 99.9% instead of 100% is because I know I've been mistaken on things that I was 100% certain of before. smile

    I've sent an email to the band's managers as listed in the liner notes of the album. I get the impression that I won't get any sort of response, but I'll give it a while. I tried not to sound accusatory, and basically just requested that the inquiry be passed along to whoever knew the source of the sample. Here is what I said:

    To whom it may concern,

    My first inquiry is: Are you the appropriate person for me to contact concerning to the matter detailed below? If not, do you know what channel would be the best to get a message to The Prodigy regarding the following?

    I would like to get into contact with whoever chose to use my sample on "Omen" or at least have this inquiry forwarded to them for their feedback. This might possibly be Liam Howlett? It was brought to my attention that a sound I created was used on the "Omen" track. I purchased the album and gave it a listen, and I'm quite certain my sample is used in the track.

    I would like to find out where the sample was obtained, because the only place I have ever posted it is at freesound.org where it was published under the Creative Commons Sampling Plus 1.0 license, which requires attribution for use (http://www.freesound.org/legal.php). There is no attribution to me or freesound.org anywhere in the liner notes of the album.

    Here is my sample: http://www.freesound.org/samplesViewSingle.php?id=1518 Which I am hearing at 0:16, 1:18, 1:32, 1:45, 1:52, 2:20, 2:40, 3:11, 3:18, and 3:25.

    As I said, I am not at all upset about this. I'm somewhat honored, actually, as The Prodigy was big part of my youth (I remember tearing the streets up on my skateboard in a sleepy little midwest american town, listening to the "fat of the land" album on my walkman). I am more concerned about third party sample retailers/distributors lifting samples from freesound.org and stripping the Creative Commons license. I am not even seeking retroactive attribution (Although I certainly wouldn't have any problem with that), nor am seeking any of the band members' contact information. I am only requesting that this be brought to the attention of the producer responsible for using the sample and to hear their response as to where the sample was obtained.

    Thanks you so much for taking the time to listen.

    Best Regards,

    (all my contact info)

    Nic Stage - Field recorder organism
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    121 sounds
    1544 posts


    that looks like a good email
    I would try the legal department of the label as well.
    they are mostly easily scared into responding (even i scared is not what you are looking for)...

    - bram

    Warning: if you break the rules, see my avatar. Freesound Admin, Moderator, Ex-Freesound-Coder & Benevolent Dictator For Life.
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    4677 sounds
    376 posts


    I heard my dog bark sound on a radio commerical and confirmed it was mine and used without my permission, should I bother?

  • avatar
    253 sounds
    86 posts


    NoiseCollector
    I heard my dog bark sound on a radio commerical and confirmed it was mine and used without my permission, should I bother?
    I'm not sure if you're jesting, but if you are I suggest you take a listen to the sample and the song. The similarity is uncanny. My goal is not egotistical at all. I am seeking attribution and recognition for freesound.org as a wonderful resource for the very application that might have been employed by the artist in question. Plus, I want to make sure third party sample houses aren't lifting stuff from freesound.org and stripping the CC license.

    Nic Stage - Field recorder organism
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    4677 sounds
    376 posts


    It's for sure, I confirmed it by the user and have proof. I would do something about it but as a full time student, full time worker and full time family man (not to mention noisecollecting and songrecording...) I barely have enough time to fight parking tickets at court and sleep, let alone sue someone on the basis of a license hardly anyone knows about... the person who used it made a commercial for the radio for another organization. I have an email from them with the bark in it and their thanks... forgot all about it till I saw this thread while eating lunch at my desk and hand writing a post closing balance statement for tonight's stupid accounting class.

  • avatar
    253 sounds
    86 posts


    NoiseCollector
    It's for sure, I confirmed it by the user and have proof. I would do something about it but as a full time student, full time worker and full time family man (not to mention noisecollecting and songrecording...) I barely have enough time to fight parking tickets at court and sleep, let alone sue someone on the basis of a license hardly anyone knows about... the person who used it made a commercial for the radio for another organization. I have an email from them with the bark in it and their thanks... forgot all about it till I saw this thread while eating lunch at my desk and hand writing a post closing balance statement for tonight's stupid accounting class.

    I'm not really sure what you're talking about. If you're capable of articulating your opinion on this matter (An opinion that I can only assume you have), would you please do so more clearly? If you aren't capable of that, would you please refrain from posting in this thread? I truly apologize if you are being serious, but I feel like you are joking around.

    Thanks. smile

    Nic Stage - Field recorder organism
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    253 sounds
    86 posts


    Neat stuff. I've been contacted by the manager. I'll post back how this turns out.

    Hi nicolas,

    I am manger for liam howlett/prodigy and have seen all the emails you sent.

    I really appreciate your approach to this matter and assure you that we will
    resolve this in a satisfactory way as laid out and suggested by yourself.

    Please will you send me the credited wording you would like to have printed
    all future artwork.

    You can reach me if you would like to talk on

    [deleted]

    I will call you myself later

    Respect

    Mike champion

    And my reply:

    Hello Mike,

    Thanks for your reply. As I said, I'm not too concerned about getting personal credit for the use of the sample; If credit is given on later artwork, I'd appreciate if freesound.org was credited at least, and me (Nic Stage) at most. In fact, I'm really excited that freesound.org has become such a good resource for producers of music, films, etc, and this instance only proves that. I want to encourage further use in the future of freesound.org for purposes like this, as long as the attribution is somewhere in the released work.

    Regards,

    Nic Stage

    Nic Stage - Field recorder organism
  • avatar
    4677 sounds
    376 posts


    nicStage
    NoiseCollector
    It's for sure, I confirmed it by the user and have proof. I would do something about it but as a full time student, full time worker and full time family man (not to mention noisecollecting and songrecording...) I barely have enough time to fight parking tickets at court and sleep, let alone sue someone on the basis of a license hardly anyone knows about... the person who used it made a commercial for the radio for another organization. I have an email from them with the bark in it and their thanks... forgot all about it till I saw this thread while eating lunch at my desk and hand writing a post closing balance statement for tonight's stupid accounting class.

    I'm not really sure what you're talking about. If you're capable of articulating your opinion on this matter (An opinion that I can only assume you have), would you please do so more clearly? If you aren't capable of that, would you please refrain from posting in this thread? I truly apologize if you are being serious, but I feel like you are joking around.

    Thanks. smile

    Not sure what you don't understand or where your misunderstanding is coming from, but I will break it down more clearly:

    1. I posted a sound on here a long time ago.

    2. Another registered user downloaded it.

    3. They used it in a commercial without crediting me.

    4. They told me about it.

    5. I am too busy to do anything about it.

    Not sure what could be more clear or articulated than that. I get straight A's on my papers at school so I am sure my command of the english language is adequate.

    I'll avoid posting in any thread you are participating in the future from now on since you seem to have some sort of personal ownership of this one. If I am mistaken, see above. My jokes are a lot more clever and offensive by the way.

  • avatar
    253 sounds
    86 posts


    NoiseCollector
    Not sure what you don't understand or where your misunderstanding is coming from, but I will break it down more clearly:

    1. I posted a sound on here a long time ago.

    2. Another registered user downloaded it.

    3. They used it in a commercial without crediting me.

    4. They told me about it.

    5. I am too busy to do anything about it.

    Not sure what could be more clear or articulated than that. I get straight A's on my papers at school so I am sure my command of the english language is adequate.

    I'll avoid posting in any thread you are participating in the future from now on since you seem to have some sort of personal ownership of this one. If I am mistaken, see above. My jokes are a lot more clever and offensive by the way.

    I'm really sorry. I feel stupid. I totally misread what you were typing. I thought you were joking around and I got a little cheeky in my post. Amends?

    Nic Stage - Field recorder organism
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    376 posts


    Only since you answered so fast. Sure...

  • avatar
    371 sounds
    254 posts


    Hey,it's good if thats your sound and i'm glad you've heard from them,and quickly too....

    Is it the legal thing or is it because people are well keen to give credit and thanks for the sounds they are pleased to find?I prefer to think it's the latter and this has been my experience here so far.

    There has been interesting debate about CC license before in these forums,from keeping conditions tight to having no restrictions at all.Creators want credit when their work is used,mixers want artistic freedom(it can pretty restrictive keeping tabs on all the sources if you've dozens of samples in front of you.

    NoiseCollector;quote:
    I heard my dog bark sound on a radio commerical and confirmed it was mine and used without my permission, should I bother?

    Interesting!
    I find the recording of a dogs bark considered as not worth bothering about to be a well serious concept, what about the use of a 0.04 sec. percussive snap in a 128-track recording?I just made a few recently.

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    121 sounds
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    awesome!

    nicStage, please keep us up to date on how this goes!

    I would love to create a blog post with both my and your story combined.

    - bram

    Warning: if you break the rules, see my avatar. Freesound Admin, Moderator, Ex-Freesound-Coder & Benevolent Dictator For Life.
  • avatar
    253 sounds
    86 posts


    The manager for The Prodigy, Mike Champion, has replied to me via email and actually even called me on the phone a few minutes ago. He has asked me how I want the credit to appear in future artwork, and offered to send me copies of the latest album revision and "Omen" single to show the change. He's even offered me tickets to a show near me. Really friendly and cooperative response from Fusion Management, I must say.

    When he asked how credit should be given, I said:

    As far as credit information goes, it would be something like "Contains a sample by Nic Stage" or "Contains a sample by Nic Stage obtained via freesound.org"

    In our phone conversation he said he will try to go for the longer form as it represents more accurately. So hopefully there will be a freesound.org mention in the credits as well.

    Nic Stage - Field recorder organism
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    121 sounds
    1544 posts


    awesome!!

    could you send me an email to bram.dejong at google's mail service dot com so I have your personal email address wink
    I'd like to write up that blog post!

    - bram

    Warning: if you break the rules, see my avatar. Freesound Admin, Moderator, Ex-Freesound-Coder & Benevolent Dictator For Life.
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    258 sounds
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    that's really tight!

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    0 sounds
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    This is actually awsom!!!!!!

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